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Anastasia Mikhailina, a top manager in the Russian HR sector, moved to France a year ago. She shared secrets and specifics of building a new life and career in another country with Relogate.
1. It's time to think about an international career
2. Your reputation should work for you
3. Don’t try to build Moscow in Paris
5. Is it possible to make crazy money in France
6. Shifting the center of your life's interests
In the current context, there might be several answers to this question. I'll choose a positive one. I never thought about an international career. My life developed in such a way that I always had very good career opportunities in Russia. It seemed to me that our Russian market was much more interesting than anywhere else. Therefore, I never aimed to leave, but at the same time, I was always curious about how everything works abroad in another, more global market, in a multinational team.
So, when the context of 2022 got us to where we all ended up, I decided that maybe it was the right time for me to try an international career. Of course, I didn't know whether I would succeed or not, whether I would be accepted for any job... But I decided that I should at least give it a try.
The decisive factor in choosing the country was probably the opportunity to find an interesting job in my professional field. I had worked for 5 years at L’Oreal and maintained excellent relationships there. When I was leaving and saying goodbye to my global colleagues, they told me: if you decide to come back — write to us. Therefore, thinking about an international career in 2022, when I was already working at X5, I decided that I would take this advice and write to L’Oreal first. I wasn't specifically focused on France. I wrote a very open letter, saying that if you, my friends, have any position in any country outside of Russia, in Europe, in Asia, or in America, then I'm ready. And in the end, they replied that the global office in France was waiting for me.
I am convinced that at some point, your reputation should start working for you. This is, of course, a very general statement, but in my case, it's true because the results of my work have always been very clear. There is one thing I do professionally, which is the recruitment of top managers. This isn't the limit to my expertise, but it's the main thing, and it's easy to assess. My reputation worked for me, and I didn't have to engage in a lengthy search.
There's no one-size-fits-all recipe — you need to analyze your situation very well. I had certain preconditions when I was leaving: my husband and I didn’t have children, we were quite free people, and we had a good financial cushion. Someone else might have different answers, and then it might not be France and maybe not even Europe, but perhaps Asia. But the basic advice is to leverage all your contacts because, in the current context, it's difficult to explain in another country that your Russian experience is valuable. For us, it may seem surprising, but in Europe, little is known about the state of the Russian market. It is impossible to get an idea of how well this market has developed and how competitive it is from the media. So, when we say that we have the coolest specialists in e-commerce, in UX design, in digital management, unfortunately, in other countries, they don't believe us.
I always advise my candidates: look at your resume and understand what it can say to a person who knows nothing about you. How can you be valuable to him? Let's say you work at Yandex and do media strategy or performance management and marketing strategy. How do I translate that so a French person would understand? He'll understand that you work in some Russian company in Moscow called "Yandex." It will be completely unclear to him that you do complex things, mathematical modeling, and use English, because people here don't know what Yandex is. My advice is to put yourself in the shoes of the person who will read your resume. Write down some specific skills, for example, developing e-commerce platforms, managing the customer journey, and creating dashboards and metrics for managing business efficiency in the largest e-commerce platform. And you can add a link to Yandex. The main challenge is to become understandable.
It's realistic to find a comparable income if you are a highly valuable candidate and the company itself wants to relocate you. In other words, when the company needs you more than you need the company. In my case with L'Oreal, I agreed to the terms they offered me. But that doesn't mean I was underpaid. I fall into the salary level that is customary here in France. I received a salary absolutely at the level of people who work here in similar positions.
France is a very hospitable country with a large influx of new citizens, primarily from former colonies. Now there is also a flow of people from Ukraine and Russia. Preparing an immigration case properly is not an easy task for those planning to move to France. All documents must be prepared according to certain rules, in French, and in a specific order. This can take a lot of time. Besides, you need to clearly state the reason for your legalization in France. For example, you could be a private entrepreneur, but then you are expected to submit a list of documents, and upon positive consideration, you will receive permission to stay in the country for a certain period. My case was for a talent passport: I was invited to have a specific position in a company. This required a different set of documents, and I received a different type of work permit. Honestly, I don't know people who have gone through this entire quest alone. I turned to immigration specialists, and they took me by the hand through all the stages. Everything went smoothly.
Let me structure my answer into two parts. First, the positive aspects. I believe that there are several countries in Europe where living is particularly interesting. I mean big cities: some cities in Germany, as well as Milan, Paris, and London. There are also Copenhagen and Amsterdam, which have a good vibe, but I think that in my profession, it's important for the city to have a lot of big businesses. Otherwise, you can't develop professionally. And France is a country where there is indeed a lot of activity. We have many colleagues from different countries in our office, and there is a huge number of international companies around.
France is quite a social country, and this is important for those who are coming here. I have health insurance, the state offers various support programs, companies can pay bonuses to employees simply because a certain profit has been made, and there are strong trade unions. In some ways, it's similar to Russia: there are social tools that were invented quite a long time ago, but they still work well. For example, if a person's wife doesn't work and they have children, their tax will be much lower. On the other hand, two working people without children will pay more, because they’re considered more successful and less burdened. And, of course, France is a beautiful country with a very diverse geography and a rich history. I love history, and it is important to me.
As for the downsides — probably, the main source of stress is related to the fact that we move to another country where people with a completely different mentality live, with different ideas of life, and different ideas of what is good and what is bad. It's not noticeable at first, but after a while, you realize that we are from different backgrounds.
Well, for example, in Moscow, early breakfast time is when you can manage to do something useful and meet someone for work. There is a culture of business breakfasts when you go to "Coffeemania" in the morning and everyone you know is already sitting there. I got used to this opportunity to take meetings out of the office and build my networking better. In Paris, it would never occur to me to invite someone for breakfast — there is no such culture. No one eats breakfast here, because most restaurants open at noon. In the morning, everyone just goes to work. It's hard to build informal relationships at work in France, especially if you are a foreigner. Business networking here is quite weak. Even business lunches are more likely to be attended by colleagues rather than business partners.
There are, of course, all sorts of everyday peculiarities. Banks work more slowly. We got used to the fact that even Sberbank has turned from an old monster into a super-modern offline and online bank with developed services. Do you remember how it used to be? They’d say, “In which office did you open your account, please go there with any requests.” That's exactly the story here with France's largest bank. You can't just send, receive, or transfer money in one click with an online bank. Here I have my banker. We built a relationship: I explained to him who I am and where I work, and I brought him all my translated documents. Because any transaction requires a banker's authorization in France.
Another example is how medical care is organized here. You can book an appointment with a doctor for money, but it will be insanely expensive, and no one does that. You must have a doctor who most likely lives in your area and who knows you personally. In Russia, in the 19th century, there was a similar system — a family doctor who treated the whole family from the elderly to children, and could, if necessary, refer you to other specialists. The system here still works like that.
Most importantly, it increases the time spent on any process. There's a different attitude to time here. In Russia, we always live at a frantic pace, because there is always something going on there. Something global, not just a mayor being elected, but some events that change the whole context of society's life, is always forefront. In Europe, there have been no global upheavals for quite a long time. And this, of course, has an impact on the pace of life. Processes are slower because no one is in a hurry. Everyone eats their croissant in the morning. In the evening, you’re usually talking with friends over a glass of wine or beer. On Saturday, you visit shops and markets. On Sunday, you possibly go to church or some family events with children and go on walks. There's a special time set aside for everything.
To make a major purchase, for example, to buy a car, in Russia, we simply transferred money to the dealer and picked up the car in the evening. For a French person, this is an event of a much larger scale and takes a month to complete. First, you need to go to the banker and discuss the transfer, and after some time, this transfer arrives and then you need to pick up the documents. This is a process that people here may not enjoy, but they do it all in a very meaningful way.
I believe that the main adjustment we need to make when moving to any country, whether it's France, Germany, or Singapore, is to try to understand why things are arranged the way they are. And don’t stress out about it. The mistake of many who come here is the desire to build everything as it was, to erect their own personal Moscow lifestyle in a completely new area with new people around, at a new job. This will not happen.
I know a story where a person was offered a job in Paris, he accepted the offer, came with his wife and children, and tried to maintain his own Moscow way of life. They wanted to send their children to various private classes and enroll them in private schools, both of which cost huge amounts of money. Here, children go to public schools, and that's the norm. Not everyone passes this crash test: some of them balk at their own desire to have what they had in Moscow in terms of everyday life. You can try to arrange it here, but in Moscow, you were earning a certain amount of money, and here, most likely, you don't. In time, things may work out, but not immediately. For now, you have to choose between a trip to Disneyland or a tutor, going on holiday or language courses.
Of course, there's a lot. For example, after a year of working, I got feedback that I was very direct. And it was not that I was rude, sharp, or harsh, but specifically, direct.
Yes. It was seen as something that needed to be changed because that's not the way it's done in France. I tried to understand what my directness was all about. For instance, the French always say “ça va” to each other when they meet in the office. It's like saying, “How are you?” and literally translates to, “Is it going?” And there's a very specific response to it, “ça va,” meaning, yes, it's going, everything is fine.
I avoided this “ça va” because, first, I didn’t speak French fluently and didn’t want to pretend. And secondly, because, well, let's be honest, who really cares how someone else is doing? But I was told that it's fundamentally important because it emphasizes equality, “égalité.” When you say “ça va” to someone, you’re essentially saying, “I see you, you are important to me, no matter if I’m your boss, subordinate, or a stranger, I recognize your right to say that things are going this way.” So, it’s an absolutely cultural aspect that’s important to understand.
Of course not. But he understands that you asked. You showed interest. And that already makes you a good person – it makes you equal to him, and him to you.
Pretty much the same, that everything is fine. But of course, there's always a story in your head that “We didn't get to go to the exhibition we wanted to visit over the weekend.” At that moment, it’s important to stop yourself because that’s not the purpose of the question. Or, for instance, don’t mention that you, “had a great trip to Normandy yesterday.” Sure, you can share this with friends, but to everyone else, it’s just “ça va,” and that's it.
That I didn't start the conversation first. I didn’t ask how they were doing. Because in my culture, to ask how you're doing to someone you don't really know is to cross a line. They may have different things going on. And in Russian culture, we’re not prepared to hear that, and no one asks. That was my logic, and it doesn’t fit in here. But I had to integrate it.
Or another example. Here in France, there is no cultural habit of criticism. That is, if you see that something won’t work, you can’t openly say, “I think this won’t work, so I suggest this and this.” No, you need to use leading questions, “What do we think, could there be such risks? Because there are certain things here,” in a very soft manner. Otherwise, someone might decide that you’re criticizing not their work, as we are used to in Russia, but them personally, because they came up with a foolish solution. The person will immediately become frustrated and focus on themselves. In global teams, it’s a bit easier, because there are completely different people: Americans, Dutch who are also very direct, and Chinese, for instance, who are extremely indirect and also prefer hints, but everyone has to come to an agreement.
Yes.
Of course. You just need to look for a job in the global head office of an international company. For example, if you don't speak German, but for some reason want to live in Germany then you need to look for a job in a company with a global office in Germany, like Schneider. Because at Schneider in France, French is required. And if you want to move to Spain, it’s better to target a company like Inditex because it has a global office in Spain and there will most likely be a lot of expats who speak English, and Spanish won’t be necessary.
I don't know how to say it properly so as not to devalue it, but I was very pleasantly surprised by the tremendous work ethic. At least it’s what I see in our office, and what I see in the metro in the mornings. I enter the metro around 8:15, and it's already full of people. People come to work by nine not because they are eager to check in on time at the entrance. It's just a sense of responsibility. My work starts at nine, and at this time, I should be at my computer, opening Teams, responding to messages, and getting ready to attend my first meeting at 9:30. People work intensively and a lot. Overall, the products that we produce at L'Oreal are of the highest quality. All of this requires huge efforts in a very competitive market. Even in my field of professional activity: I look at resumes, and a person may have 20 years of experience with ten years in consulting and then five years in one excellent company and five years in another and they might have an MBA, but even with such credentials, they may not hold as high of a position that they could have had in Moscow. The number of years of experience and serious expertise does not create the impression that you have to be the director of all directors in the world. Instead, this person calmly continues to do their work.
Of course, everyone loves money. And the French are no exception. They have plenty of ways to spend it. But the question is rather that they don’t believe that it is possible to earn some crazy money. Because, most likely, you can't. There are quite conservative schemes for salary increases everywhere. Companies know how to count money, taxes are high, and everyone lives in this trend. Very calmly: what you earn is what you earn.
There are no companies here like we have in the Moscow or St. Petersburg markets, which, for example, have decided to improve the quality of top management and are prepared to overpay significantly to poach the best people from Yandex, Sberbank, or X5. That won’t happen here. Because, again, the pace of life is completely different, and there are no such upheavals where you need to transform from an outsider to a market leader within a year. The corporate strategy of global companies is different.
It’s a big and complex question, and probably everyone will have their own answer. The Russian market is one of the most dynamic, and I believe it offers a unique professional experience. I judge by my friends who were involved in e-commerce, digital, marketing, and now have moved to France. They possess a rare set of competencies that are not yet common here. An example is “Yandex.Lavka” with three delivery options: you can get quality groceries at home within 15 minutes, within an hour, or within a day. In Paris, Rome, or Madrid, this doesn’t exist yet, but maybe in London and Berlin, there might be same-day delivery options. To build a delivery service like that in Moscow, you need the best specialists in supply chain, inventory management, and routing, as well as developers, IT designers, and architects who will build the platform. The Russian market is very steep. It is like the Shanghai or Singapore market. Here, in France, there is no such thing. But here they also know little about it, because, usually, Europeans haven’t been to Moscow.
A couple of years ago, when my colleagues at the Russian office of L’Oreal were wondering whether they should leave, I was sure that from a professional point of view, it made sense to leave if you wanted to add a new layer to your good expert experience. In my case, to build on my experience with an international career. And of course, the decision to move was very difficult for me. I had to leave my apartment where I loved living, and some household items, and not visit my parents every week.
No, we haven't sold it or rented it out. It’s waiting for us when we have trips to Moscow because my family is there, my parents are there, and I was born there. It doesn’t mean that once you've left, you can't come back. I don’t like it when people say, “I will never return, I’ll close the door, then nail it shut.” Life is very long and complicated, and despite the tragic things happening in different countries today, I think it’s important not to make categorical promises to yourself.
Moving helps to undo the hooks that used to hold me down. It was as if I belonged to a particular place. There’s even a legal term in France: “shifting the center of life's interests.” So, shifting the center of life's interests is actually very interesting. It's new neural connections, new experiences, a certain strength that you didn't have before, and new competencies.
Yes. It's important to be able to take yourself out of the context where you were born and where you spent most of your time and to learn to judge things not from within yourself, but from the outside, from the world around. Then, shifting the center of life's interests to France, the USA, or Singapore makes you richer internally. And a decrease in income and some everyday difficulties are just a certain price to pay for becoming a more experienced person who understands more about the world.
